[BBC] Part 3 - Deciding which tracks went on …
Jo Whiley meets Madonna, the interview highlights - Part 3...
Is it stressful working with Guy?
Yeah, it is and it isn't. On the one hand I probably knew more about
what was going on than everyone else. On the other hand, when you're
related to the boss you actually get worked harder than everyone else
cos you have to set an example.
Are they less forgiving?
Less forgiving, more demanding.
How do you deal with that?
I had to adapt to it, it was an adjustment for me. But, once I figured
it out everything was fine
So you could go home at the end of the day and sit down and have a
meal?
The hard part was changing, wearing the wife hat, knowing when to take
off the wife hat and put on the actress hat. And there were often
times when I'd be pissed off in the wife role but I had to forget
about that, so when I was in the actress role I could get along with
him on set. And sometimes I'd be pissed off at him in the actress role
and when I went home I had to forget about that so I could be the
wife. It was very schizophrenic.
Was he confused?
It was challenging for him too. We kept saying "this is gonna make or
break our relationship", but we've said that about everything, about
having a baby, about getting married, about this and that, so far
everything's been good.
So he must be dead chuffed with the movie too?
Yeah. I think he is.
Is he in the edit suite now?
Oh yeah, he's in there right now, strangling the editor probably.
Is he quite a control freak, does he find it hard to step back?
Well, he has a vision and he's very hands on and he knows exactly what
he wants to do. I'm sure you've seen his films, they are very quirky
and very specific, and I think that a large part of what the movie
looks like has to do with the editing and Guy's vision has to be part
of that.
How did you feel when you heard that the man who wrote about Princess
Diana in a less than flattering light was writing a book about you?
Well, he's one of many people who have written an unauthorised
biography about me. I actually heard about it a year ago because he
started sending these really formal sickeningly sweet letters to
everyone I know, that I work with, all my friends, and they were all
ringing me up saying who is this person? I was just like forget it,
just ignore him. I mean, he really went through my rolodex and that
part was really annoying and I ended up writing him a letter saying
I'm not interested in you writing this book, I don't want to have
anything to do with it and please leave my friends alone.
Did he reply?
Well I sent him a book that I thought he might enjoy and I thought
when he read the book he might change his mind about writing the book,
and he wrote thanking me for the book
What was the book?
It's called the 'Power of Kabbalah', it's a beginners crash course on
what it's all about. And it's very similar to Isaac Newton's theory
that for every action there's a reaction. I was sort of imploring him
to take responsibility for his actions, which is to write things about
people that aren't true. And that eventually in some way shape or form
it would come back round to him, but he either didn't read it or
didn't care.
Are you angry with him or do you despair about it?
I wouldn't say I despair about it, there was a point where I was angry
about it because there was also another book coming out at the same
time, and I'd heard or read bits of pieces that were written about it.
Of course it's infuriating I'd be a liar if I said it wasn't, and I
have a family now and of course part of me says 'oh just leave me
alone I'm getting on with my life'. And he couldn't possibly have the
real story on me, because he never interviewed either myself or anyone
that really knows me, so what's the point in publishing a book?
It's a very descriptive book it's a very flowery book...
In other words it's not a well written book
No it's appalling. You do get the sense that he's not actually spoken
to anyone who knows you...
Listen, we all know he wrote it for financial gain and the truth had
little to do with it.
Were there people who did speak to him that you were disappointed
with?
Yes.
And how did you deal with them?
I didn't deal with it at all - I made a note of it mentally, said a
few disparaging remarks about them and then got on with my life. The
people who spoke about me are people I haven't spoken to in so long -
they're not really in my life anymore - I wouldn't even have the phone
number to call them up and tell them off.
Do you get this all the time, betrayal from people?
Not all the time, once in a blue moon.
Has it ever really hurt? Has there been a case recently where you
thought 'how could you'?
Yeah, one person in particular. I did think that for about 10 minutes,
but then I thought that anyone who does do something like that is in a
very dark place in their life. In the end I felt sorry for them.
Your skin must be very thick now?
Think and thin.
You've been a mother for some time now, but you're a family now,
there's four of you, how does that feel?
It's great. Fabulous and gives you all kinds of solace and security,
but it's also incredibly exhausting.
It must be quite different to being the four of you as opposed to just
you and Lourdes?
Yeah, very big adjustments. Sharing is a big thing, because Guy has a
very big personality and so do I. Just learning to live with someone
after you've been single, or a single parent for a while is an
adjustment. But he's a very independent person and we both give each
other lots of space.
Do the children have big personalities too?
Oh yeah.
Can I call Lourdes 'Lola'?
Yeah, sure.
How does she take to having a brother?
She loves it.
She didn't object at any time?
I think she did in the beginning... Now they are great and she's very
protective of him but in the beginning she was a bit jealous, because
she used to have me to herself and then she had Guy and Rocco - she
had to go through an adjustment period of sharing me
Now she's very well adjusted and happy and does he adore her, I bet he
does?
Yeah, she's just like some kind of star, he's completely infatuated
with her.
How did you actually decide to live here in the UK? How did you decide
to spend the rest of your lives together geographically?
Basically Guy threatened to leave me and I said OK! [laughs]
Really?
Well, I originally spent most of my time in New York and Guy is
completely freaked out by New York, he just thinks it's too crazy and
too mad. Even though we have a place in LA it's not really a city to
live in and bring up children, so that leaves London by default. And
London's great I love it here. If Guy had have said I love New York,
let's live there who knows where we'd end up?
Did it actually come down to you saying 'I can either live my life on
my own in New York, or with the kids, or...'
Oh God, as if there was an option, no way! Guy really feels strongly
about living here and I don't care. I love living in Europe I think
it's great, I love being near Paris and Rome. I feel this is much more
central to all the places I love in the world.
There were quite a few photos of you going through a tearful time with
Guy trying to sort out what you were going to do, where you were going
to be...
No, no, no. I don't know who made that story up. I have never gone
through a difficult time with Guy. I think I was walking out of San
Lorenzo and putting my hair up. I saw those pictures. We weren't
having a fight, I was laughing.
What's Lola's music taste at the moment?
Her and my son have become quite obsessed with that Kylie Minogue
track. But other than that she hasn't been listening to pop music.
Mostly jazz and classical.
Is that coming from you or Guy?
It's a combination of me and the nannies. My son loves jazz, it's the
only thing that puts him to sleep.
What does Lola make of your job, and the fact that you are Madonna. Is
she aware?
She is starting to become aware. I don't think she truly grasps the
whole concept of fame and celebrity, she makes fun of people. When I
was on tour and people were screaming and yelling as I walked past a
barricade or something she'd make fun of them afterwards going
"Madonna, Madonna we love you!" It was very funny.
Does she ever think you're not cool? Or have an opinion of the clothes
that you wear?
No, she's very sweet. She says things when she likes them but she's
never said I wasn't cool. She doesn't watch TV or read magazines, and
I keep her away from pop-culture journalism because I don't really
think it's a very positive influence at this stage of her life.
As a family, what are your happiest times?
I think when we're having a walk in the countryside somewhere, away
from it all.
Do you do any sports? Shooting?
Yeah, clay pigeon shooting, pheasant shooting.
Seriously, have you done pheasant shooting?
Yep.
Is it fun?
Yeah, it's hard.
What do you get out of it?
An appreciation of nature, paradoxically.
In what way?
Because when you're shooting you are standing in the forest for really
long periods of time doing absolutely nothing, so you end up looking
at the leaves and the sky and the trees. You have a lot of time to
mediate.
It doesn't bother you that you're shooting birds?
Well, I eat birds. You have more of a respect for the things you eat
when you go through or see the process of killing them. I wear leather
shoes, I eat fish, I eat chicken, I eat game, in a way I respect it
more. It's quite violent but very real... Most people are really
removed from the fact an animal died for their dinner, and I like
knowing what I'm eating and being aware of the process. It's much
better for you eating wild game than a processed thing you buy in the
supermarket.
Any more children or have you called it a day now?
What did I say at the beginning of the interview? Never say never.
What is happening with your label Maverick at the moment?
We have a record about to go gold, I don't know if you've heard of
Michelle Branch, she's a singer and she's fabulous.
When you did the Drowned World tour?
Oh, that old thing.
Were you surprised about the outcry over ticket prices?
I'm so worth it!
Thank you very much indeed.
You are welcome.
Also...
The Testimony
Like all guests Madonna took The Testimony, answering questions like:
What would Guy say were your bad habits?
What's the most you've ever spent on an item of clothing?
You're at a party one night. Everyone's had quite a lot to drink,
Vinny Jones tries it on, what would you do?
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